reactions to "A Rose.." and "A Good Man.."

(Hey everyone! Sorry this was such a late post.)

When reading “A Rose for Emily” by William Faulkner, the first thoughts that came to my mind was a rose as an archetype symbol. The rose is a heavily weighted symbol; it signifies love, beauty, passion, and romance. I think the rose also has other messages tied to it though, such as “every rose has its thorn.” A rose is also very fragile and treated with caution and admiration. I think all of these ideas can tie into Faulkner’s story, “A Rose for Emily.”

A number of aspects jump out to me when I read this text. One of the most interesting of these is the narrator as a collective voice. In this story, the narrator or narrators refer to themselves as “we.” Faulkner sets it up as if the entire town is telling this story about Emily. Rumors and gossip play large roles in the telling of this story.

One thing that is interesting to me is that, although Faulkner’s descriptive writing is very clear, I can never seem to create a clear image of Emily in my head. I’m always confused because at one point she’s fat, then thin, then white, then gray. I think part of the reason for my confusion may be because the narrators themselves are unsure of what Emily looks like exactly. They are only getting short glimpses of this intriguing character and they use their imaginations to create the rest.

I guess it would be interesting to involve a creative writing project when teaching this text. The students could play with the ideas of rumors and gossip diluting or changing the story- sort of a written “telephone” game. For younger students, this would be an important lesson on the influence of point of view on a story.

After reading “A Good Man is Hard to Find,” by Flannery O’Connor, I would consider using this story to teach a lesson on characterization or even archetypal figures. The characters in this story are so powerful from the very beginning. The grandmother and the Misfit are the two characters that strike me the most. On the surface, they would appear to be opposites- an old lady and a male killer. However, at the end of the story, I am left with the feeling that O’Connor wanted us to realize that they really weren’t that different at all. The quote: “‘She would have been a good woman,’ The Misfit said, ‘if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life’” really sticks with me and makes me think twice about these characters.

Another part of the story that always amazes me is when the grandmother, who comes off as so stubborn and determined, realizes that she made a mistake about which state the house was in. I think this is the pivotal moment where the reader starts to see the multiple dimensions of each character.

Archetypes in "A Rose for Emily," and "A Good Man is Hard to Find."

At the beginning of the story, "A Rose for Emily," I felt like they were already setting her up as an archetypal character. She was well-known about town and a "tradition" (160). The mayor is also an archetype, he is not named but is just defined by his title. We know nothing else about him, but because he is the mayor, through the archetypal lens we already know(assume) many things about him. "The Negro" that works in her house is also an archetypal figure.

The death of a parent is also another archetype of element of story design. Miss Emily's father dies, and she is forever changed by it. The story suggests that she goes crazy because of it. In most stories where this archetype is present, one of the characters either tries to take revenge on the parent's murderer or carries the death in a traumatic way. Miss Emily deals with the death of her father in both ways almost. She was so traumatized by her father's death that she refused to properly acknowledge Homer's death.

The arsenic that Miss Emily tries to buy for rats is also an archetype. Or maybe just the idea of taking poison must be an archetype. The poison was mentioned in this story and already I can conjure up at least Socrates (hemlock) and Romeo and Juliet so there are definitely many associations with it.

I really didn't expect the ending, there was plenty of foreshadowing, I just never caught on to what was being foreshadowed. Maybe the smell that was coming from her house is also an archetype. The smell of decay is a symbol that would probably apply to any time period.

In "A Good Man is Hard to Find," is Florida an Archetype? Especially when in the first sentence there is mention of a grandmother, I think Florida can be made an archetype. We talked on Wednesday about how an archetype had to be a widely accepted (old) symbol. I'm not exactly sure how old the idea of old people moving to Florida is. If it is a tradition of over 50 years old, can it be a new archetype?

The Misfit is also a very strong archetype. He reminded me of Arnold Friend from "Where are you going, Where have you been?" He, like the Mayor and the Negro from "A Rose for Emily," has no real name only an identity characterized by his actions as a Misfit.

The family road trip is also perhaps an archetype in this story, but, like the idea of Florida, it is probably also a new one.

Continuing our Discussion of Hills Like White Elephants

Hey Everyone,

I've been thinking more about what we began to discuss at the end of last Monday's class regarding Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants," particularly with regard to the discussion of the "it" in the story.

I especially appreciated the point that any divining of the meaning of "it" relies on archetypes, and I've begun to consider more how much this is the case. In my own cultural experience of life, the combination of an older man, a younger girl, an affair-like (or at least, non-married) relationship, a trip to an unknown place to perform an activity that is ominously never named... well I wouldn't say it screams abortion, but abortion was in fact one among the initial idea to cross my mind when I first read this story a few years ago. This all being said, this story was written in 1927. Of course I can only speculate, but I imagine that the even-more-ominous nature of an illicit May-December affair, let alone the act of getting an abortion, against the backdrop of the 1920s would serve to emphasize the unspeakable nature of "it."

I guess I'm a little preoccupied with how much time - the period and the distance from present day - affects understanding of an archetype. For example, when the American insists "I wouldn't have you do it if you didn't want to. But I know it's perfectly simple," I take him to be patronizing and reliant on the fact that, at the end of the day, Jig values his experience and conceptions of the world as outweighing her own (151). I form these interpretations based on words from his dialogue such as "I wouldn't have you" and "it's perfectly simple," which to me suggest a broadcast sense of worldliness and a condescension based on 'the wisdom of his years'.

But in 1927, would I derive these same opinions of the man? I can't say because I don't know how the typical man...let alone the typical man in his relationship with a woman...let alone the typical man in his relationship with a younger woman (... I could go on and on and on) would be generally categorized or represented in literature and other forms of fictional entertainment. Beyond even the era-based conception of archetypal man, I could delve deeper into the fact that he is referred to as The American, and all of the potential archetypal symbols that fall in with this. Ultimately, though, I am conflicted. I don't feel limited by my lack of first person understanding of gender roles in the 1920s, but at the same time I am fairly certain that there were certain cultural sentiments from this time period that I am unknowingly excluded from fully comprehending. To this end, I think that time significantly determines the presence of archetypes, but conversely the passage of time or the newness of an era cannot prohibit the existence or understanding of them.

Elizabeth

Archetypes in "Sweat"

The snake in Hurston's "Sweat" is an excellent example of an archetype. Such a symbolic creature! I was researching "snake symbolism" and found something about children that play with modeling clay (ha, random yes, but follow me!). Often, the long, thin noodle that they produce between the palm of their hands will be called a snake, even if they have never seen one. This is fascinating because it enforces Jung's ideas about archetypes - these are hard-wired and transcend time and culture. Although it's true we have been seeing that some symbolic archetypes are also very contextual and dependent upon culture.

Serpent (snake or worm): symbol of energy and pure force (cf. libido); evil, corruption, sensuality; destruction; mystery; wisdom; the unconscious.

In "Sweat", the snake is a source of great fear and hate for Delia. Very early in the story, she expresses her paralyzing fear of snakes and blasts Sykes for scaring her with the whip, which she had mistaken for a snake. Later, when there is an actual snake in her home, she suffers from an even greater degree of torment, that suggests a parallel between her hate for Sykes and the snake itself. On a quick reader response tip, because of my religious background, I associate snakes with the serpent from the Bible - a classic symbol of evil. However, it is also a classic symbol of wisdom. These two ideas may both have a place in "Sweat" when considering the snake through an Archetypal Lens.

It's very interesting to consider the ending and how/why the snake caused Sykes' implied death. Perhaps the snake represents death or God's wrath - enforcing justice into Sykes' neck with its fangs! Maybe the snake is a symbol of anger and is the living manifestation of Delia's anger toward Sykes. The possibilities are endless but the process of asking these questions is so important in our attempt to find meaning.

I think this specific example is a fantastic model for how several different components of Critical Theory come together in a unified approach to studying literature. Since the snake image evokes an emotional response from most readers, it could be a great way to encourage students to explore their own personal associations with such an image. This unifies two lenses - Reader Response & Archetypal - all while using the text to enrich our understanding of both content and theory.

Another really fascinating archetype in "Sweat" is the color white. Early in the story, Sykes is stepping on "the whitest pile" of freshly washed clothes that belong to "white folks'." From our previous discussions on primordial symbols, we know that white is associated with purity or innocence. It could be that he is metaphorically stepping on Delia's innocence and purity. He is actually defiling her soul by violently mistreating her.

I also picked up on the seasonal archetype idea. The story starts in spring and "burns through" the summer. Spring is usually a symbol for rebirth and new life. Summer symbolizes peace, maturity, knowledge, and the prime of life. With this in mind, perhaps Delia will finally be at peace, now that her tormenter has perished.

Finally, the "Bully" character archetype that Jessica mentioned is clearly at work here, too. Sykes dominates the relationship as the aggressor and Delia is terribly oppressed - a common character relationship found in many works of literature.

Archetypes in The Metamorphosis

Hi Everyone,

Sorry this post is late - I was home for the weekend and got back WAY later than anticipated.

In my search for a common list of archetypes, I've found such exhaustive information, that I feel like any character you can characterize as "The X,Y,Z" is an archetype (e.g. The Bully, The Teacher's Pet). An element of Franz Kafka's "The Metamorphosis" that I find to be very interesting through our lens is the fact that the archetypes seem to be presented through shifts. This is to say, the characters occupy different archetypal roles as the story progresses. This is apparent as early as the first line in the novella, when Gregor Samsa awakes to find himself "transformed into an enormous pest" (63). Though I interpret that we are to take this transformation to be literal, the words of this line can be picked apart to show many archetypal references. For one, there is the connotation of the word "pest" - as in, parasitic, bothersome, unnecessary, and even something life/people would be better off without. Then there is the word "transformed," which suggests (as we find out is correct throughout the continuation of the story) that Gregor moves from being one who contributes to being one who exploits... though I'd argue that Gregor is forced by his condition to be one who technically "exploits," as in requires the assistance of others. To me it seems that Gregor is now in the role of The Parasite. Though this may not be on a top ten list of archetypes, I feel it is nonetheless a commonly occurring role in a society or group - the one who uses but contributes nothing.

The thing that makes this story so fascinating, though, is that Gregor certainly did not always fill this role. Though he now is confined by his buggy condition to his room or other isolated parts of his home, he was once the primary breadwinner for his family, while his father sat at the kitchen table, seemingly interminably, demanding work and effort from his wife and children, yet contributing no discernible amount himself. Here, Gregor was once The Provider, and his father was The Pest/The Parasite. When Gregor is suddenly forced by his physical state to change his role within his family (=society), no one in his family knows how to react. With his formerly affectionate sister at one point exclaiming " 'It has to go,'... and practically vaulted off her chair, as if she'd rather sacrifice her [mother] than remain in Gregor's vicinity" (94). This pronounced - and devastatingly sad - shift in feeling toward Gregor, essentially for the physical version of a role shift, suggests a deeper issue about society: that one is bound (by expectations, if nothing else) to stick to the role they've established. Any departure from the norm might result in disdain, anger, or even - as Kafka depicts - grotesque horror.

This idea of societal impact on archetypal roles and "role maintenance" seems like an interesting one to explore in teaching this unit. I like that we could take the discussion from the text (e.g. What are the roles played by the family members in the story? How do these roles change?) to the personal OR general (e.g. What are roles in society? How do people come to inhabit their role? Can one ever change the role they assume, and if so - how?), or even the opposite order. I'd like to discuss this element more together in class tomorrow.

Elizabeth

Archetypes, YGB, and Sweat

I know we were trying to compile a list of archetypes. Here are some that I have found:

"The Hero
A larger-than-life character that often goes on some kind of journey or quest. In the course of his journey, the hero demonstrates the qualities and abilities valued by his culture.
King Arthur, Odysseus, Luke Skywalker, Frodo

The Father Figure
The protector and leader
Mufasa from The Lion King

The Mother Figure
The protective nurturer and gentle provider
Ma Joad in The Grapes of Wrath

The Fatal Woman or Temptress
A woman who uses her power (intellect, magic, or most of all, beauty) to make men, especially the Hero, weak
Circe and the Sirens in The Odyssey, Lady Macbeth, Morgan le Fey

The Witch
A woman, often a hag (though she may be disguised as a beautiful young woman), who attempts to trap and destroy the protagonist
The Wicked Stepmother in fairy tales

Monster/Villain
The antagonist, especially in opposition to the hero.
The Big Bad Wolf from Little Red Riding Hood, The Giant in Jack and the Beanstalk

The Innocent
An inexperienced male or female character that is exposed to the evils in the world
Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz, Little Red Riding Hood

The Alter Ego or Double
Reveals the dual nature of man
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

Helpers ~ Wise Old Woman or Man ~ Wise Animal
Characters that assist or guide the protagonist
Merlin, Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi in Star Wars, Grandmother Willow in Pocahontas

The Trickster/The Fool
Characters who trick others to get them to do what s/he wants – they can be both virtuous and nefarious.
Puss-in-Boots, Road Runner, Fred & George Weasley

The Underdog."

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Others that I was thinking about -> light/dark, we discussed color briefly in class on Wednesday and what the colors signify.

One thing I was wondering about archetypes is whether or not setting is an archetype. Because YGB is set in Salem, doesn't the place itself become a symbol? Salem carries many associations... the which trials, religion... Unless these things would fall more under the historical lens. I'm not sure. Salem is definitely a symbol recognized by most people at least for the Salem witch trials. In the Unit, the class could explore what associations each student has with the symbols and archetypes in the story. This has potential to be a great visual activity where the student has to draw an example of an archetype, explain it, and give several example of it like the ones listed at the beginning of the post. The students would enjoy getting to draw and color as well as making text-to-text or even text-to-self and text-to-world connections.

Another Archetype in the story is the "Native" Indians. Talking about how this character is an archetype may also be a good way to talk about stereotypes in the classroom. The Indians in this story are devilish and bad characters. Obviously since not every Indian is a savage, the class could discuss times when they have experiences stereotypes based on a part of their identities. Hopefully this would help them easily catch on to the lens, and teach students that this is a lens (sort of) that people use in their everyday judgment of the people around them. Equating the archetypal lens to stereotyping may help the students get away from stereotypes or at least identify when they are guilty of using them.

For "Sweat," I definitely identified the same archetypes that Rebecca did. Even from the first few paragraphs it is clear that the story is about a husband a wife whose relationship is uneven. He wants to whip her and it is automatically apparent what archetypes they are. He is the abusive, controlling bad husband; she is the permissive wife.

The skillet was an important symbol I found in the story. it is an archetype for women's work, and also strength. It became even more interesting when it actually stops Sykes from hitting Delia. I guess, though it is also saying that women's strength is in it the kitchen, hidden.

Archetypes in "Young Goodman Brown" and "Sweat"

Hi guys! From our reading this week, "Young Goodman Brown" seems to be the perfect story to look at through the archetypal lens. YGB is filled will archetypes that most people would be familiar with (even without much background knowledge on archetypes). Because this story is still complicated in other ways, I would definitely consider using this as one of the first stories in an archetypal unit, but probably with a higher level group or grade.

Just on the first page, there were many archetypes that can easily be connected to other pieces of literature. The dreary road, the traveler, the devil, the clock, the forest, the staff, the snake/serpent, the pious old lady are some of these archetypes. It could be a nice activity for students to take a few of these from YGB and brainstorm other books, TV, movies, etc. where they've seen these symbols, characters, and settings.

YGB would also be an interesting story to study because Hawthorne sets up these well-known archetypes, but then he distorts them as Young Goodman Brown goes deeper and deeper into the forest. Hawthorne uses the preconceptions that come along with the archetype in order to further support his message.

"Sweat" wasn't filled with different archetypes as YGB was, but there was definitely one prominent archetypal situation; that of an abusive husband and submissive wife. However, Hurston gives so much power to Delia because she is able to stand up to Syke, she fights back against the limitations of her gender, and essentially, she also breaks the archetype that she had been stuck in for years.

I think it is pretty interesting how both of these short stories use the archetype as a strategy. By definition, as readers when we encounter an archetype, we assume that we know what to expect. However, Hawthorne and Hurston used archetypes and our assumptions to surprise us when the characters/symbols were not exactly what we thought they would be.